Navigating the Landscape of Cybersecurity with Ashanka Iddya
This episode features a compelling discussion between, our host Nella Muzia and our guest Ashanka Iddya, centered around the pivotal role of vulnerability in leadership within the technology sector. Ashanka, a distinguished executive in cybersecurity marketing, elucidates her journey and the importance of fostering an environment where professionals feel empowered to engage in open, authentic dialogues.
Her insights highlight how embracing vulnerability can enhance trust among teams and facilitate a culture of curiosity rather than fear, particularly in high-stakes situations.
Throughout the conversation, we explore the challenges and triumphs faced by women in tech, emphasizing the necessity of representation and advocacy for underrepresented groups.
Join us as we delve into Ashanka's experiences and perspectives, providing invaluable guidance for both aspiring and established professionals navigating the complexities of the tech landscape.
Takeaways:
- The episode illuminates the crucial role women play in technology, emphasizing their significant contributions and potential to shape the future.
- Ashanka Iddya's journey from engineering to cybersecurity exemplifies the importance of following one's passion and advocating for diversity in tech.
- Vulnerability in leadership is highlighted as an underrated skill that fosters trust and encourages open communication within teams.
- Mentorship is portrayed as a reciprocal process where leaders not only guide but also share their own challenges and learnings to empower emerging professionals.
Find them online:
Nella Muzia: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nella-muzia/
Ashanka Iddya://www.linkedin.com/in/ashanka-iddya-9164015/
Find us on Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/witlovepodcast/
Transcript
Welcome to witlove, a podcast founded by women, produced by women, about women in technology.
Speaker A:There is a huge place for women in tech and this podcast is going to get well into the work as a leading contributor to help change the trajectory and see the rise of women in technology.
Speaker A:Sit back and enjoy as our young female hosts share energy with experienced professional women in technology.
Speaker B:All right, so I want to welcome everyone to the Wit Love Podcast.
Speaker B:This is a podcast that is connecting young hosts like myself to professional women in tech, where we'll get to share wisdom and learn about each other in the process.
Speaker B:So for those who are already familiar with the show, you might be not familiar with my voice.
Speaker B:My name is Nella, I'm a new host here, here at witlove and I am a learning and development specialist and my specialty is assisting new hires in being successful in customer service.
Speaker B:So today we're thrilled to have the lovely Ashanka Idia, who is a seasoned executive and senior director of Cybersecurity marketing at Dark Trace, a global leader in AI driven cybersecurity solutions.
Speaker B:So in this role she focuses on shaping the company's go to market strategies for its advanced threat detection and response products.
Speaker B:Over her career, she has led the growth of billion dollar cybersecurity products.
Speaker B:So we're going to hear more about her.
Speaker B:So Prior to joining Darktrace, Ashanka had a distinguished 13 year tenure at Microsoft where she held various positions in the security division.
Speaker B:Ashanka holds an MBA from Duke University which has equipped her with a robust understanding of business strategy and leadership.
Speaker B:So I'm going to now turn it over to Ashanka.
Speaker B:Welcome to the show.
Speaker C:Thank you.
Speaker C:I am super excited.
Speaker C:Thank you for having me.
Speaker B:Yes, it's a pleasure having you here.
Speaker B:One thing I just wanted to add also while reading your bio, that beyond your marketing expertise, you also have a passion about talent development.
Speaker B:So that's really interesting because I'm also in that field.
Speaker B:So it's really interesting and exciting to hear that you're also passionate about developing individuals.
Speaker B:I hear, I see that you're also actively a mentor and coach and you coach emerging professionals, finding fulfillment and seeing others achieve their career goals.
Speaker B:So that's really awesome to hear it.
Speaker C:For me, I think it drives everything I do is especially watching other people be successful and helping helping them in their journey.
Speaker C:So yeah, it's not just a passion area.
Speaker C:I think it's a core of what I do every day.
Speaker B:That's amazing.
Speaker B:And so tell me where, when did this passion start?
Speaker C:So that's a great question.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:So I think when I was in one of my various roles, I remember having this conversation with my husband very clearly.
Speaker C:Like, you know, I used to be in these meetings that had like, you know, where I was the odd one out, where it was, you know, there was not just people who didn't look like me, but they didn't speak like me.
Speaker C:They didn't have this, you know, it was just being the odd one out in like a world of sameness.
Speaker C:And so I remember having this conversation with my husband and saying, hey, like, you know, it's so frustrating that I can't sort of where I feel like the odd one out.
Speaker C:I need more people.
Speaker C:There needs to be more diversity at the table where decisions are being made.
Speaker C:And I remember my husband saying, well, it all starts with you.
Speaker C:If you don't step up to help other people get to the table, how is that, how is that going to happen if you need to be the change you want to see in the world?
Speaker C:And that just opened my eyes to be like, yeah, I can't just complain about this, I have to do something about this.
Speaker C:And from that point on, it just became my passion in life to support talent and professionals who also have non traditional backgrounds.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:I think it's one of those things where you have so much homogeneity, especially I work in tech, so in tech, which affects billions of people in the world and you have a homogeneity of decision making that's not good for all of us.
Speaker C:And so I think that's why it's become sort of so central to what I do is look for non traditional backgrounds and look at what they can contribute to, you know, the overall sort of process of building products and make sure they have a seat at the table.
Speaker C:So that, that's, that's why it's sort of, that's why it's very personal to me.
Speaker B:No, I love that.
Speaker B:And I, I really liked what you were saying in terms of how I interpret it.
Speaker B:Like, you know, someone instilled that, you know, your husband kind of empowered you, like, yes, you can do it.
Speaker B:You need to be the change.
Speaker B:And now you, you're empowering other people and you're just keeping that cycle going.
Speaker C:Absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker B:And it's so important, like you said, because technology connects all of us.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:We're all connected through, you know, the technology, but then there's not enough people of different representations at the table.
Speaker B:And it's like this is completely to them and affecting these people.
Speaker B:So we need representation at that same table.
Speaker C:And I think there is a sense of it's not just representation, but advocacy sometimes.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Like, and it's the.
Speaker C:Sometimes I would be at these meetings and it would just be assumed, oh, we're doing this.
Speaker C:And you have to sort of be like, well, that I can sort of see how it's going to land in certain places doesn't.
Speaker C:May not land well.
Speaker C:And so I think it's.
Speaker C:That it's also a new way of doing business.
Speaker C:I feel like.
Speaker C:So in some sense, what.
Speaker C:That's why I'm so passionate about being a manager is being a manager when others see me being the manager, advocating for others and you know, for example, you know, being someone in my team who's early in the career to senior meetings and watching how like, you know, the decisions get played out, all of that is, is sort of visibility into, hey, if you want to change things, here's what you have to learn to do.
Speaker C:And so I think for me, it's, it's.
Speaker C:It's become very fundamental as I have grown in my career is.
Speaker C:Is for people like us who have managed to.
Speaker C:To pave the way for others that we should continue to.
Speaker C:To advocate for talent and not gatekeep.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Like, that's very important because sometimes, you know, we get at this positions and I think because of our experiences, we may be tempted to be more gatekeeping.
Speaker C:And so I think that's, that's.
Speaker C:I think where I come from is not just representation, but also advocating for what you believe is right.
Speaker B:Honestly, that's so awesome.
Speaker B:And I think that is definitely what people need more of in the workplace, honestly.
Speaker B:So thank you.
Speaker B:Thank you for your passion.
Speaker B:Thank you for just pouring out to others.
Speaker B:That's amazing.
Speaker B:Before we get into the series of questions and the conversations that we have, we do want to get.
Speaker B:Give the audience an opportunity to kind of get to know who Ashanka is.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So we have some, some fun questions before we begin our discussion.
Speaker B:So if you can tell me, if you could travel anywhere in the world, where would it.
Speaker B:What would be your ultimate dream destination?
Speaker C:Oh, my God.
Speaker C:Interestingly, I did.
Speaker C:I have traveled to 53 countries.
Speaker C:Wow.
Speaker C:Travel is a passion for me.
Speaker C:Just like getting to know other cultures and being immersed in their culture.
Speaker C:So this is a difficult, difficult one.
Speaker B:Okay, so then maybe you can tell me what's the.
Speaker B:Where.
Speaker B:Where was the.
Speaker B:Your most favorite place that you've been to?
Speaker B:Most memorable place that you've been to?
Speaker C:I actually loved Tanzania for.
Speaker C:So Tanzania was where I went to for, for my honeymoon.
Speaker C:And I Think one of the, the way, one of the reasons I love Tanzania was it was we, we did probably the entire country.
Speaker C:So we started at Dar es Salaam and then we went to various national parks and just, you know, I think looking back at it, one of, one of the favorite reasons for being so touched with nature.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker C:Like, it's the, it's, it's who we are as human beings in some sense where it's like, oh, when you take out, when you take out the technology from our lives, when you take out the buildings and the city and everything, it's sort of coming down to the core or of human beings and animals and coexisting together.
Speaker C:I think that was very profound for me.
Speaker C:It was just, oh, wow.
Speaker C:So this is what it feels like to be human and without the distractions of everything.
Speaker C:So I, I really love Tanzania.
Speaker C:Beautiful country, beautiful people.
Speaker C:Just, it was great.
Speaker B:You know, as an African, I'm just so happy to hear that.
Speaker B:That's, I love to hear that experience because sometimes that's not what is portrayed sometimes in the media.
Speaker B:So I'm just happy to hear that you had such a great experience in Tanzania.
Speaker B:Awesome.
Speaker B:Okay, so then what is your favorite way to use AI in your personal life?
Speaker C:Favorite way to use AI in my personal life, actually, I have a five year old child and she likes listening to stories.
Speaker C:And so my favorite way to use AI is to.
Speaker C:Is to help like create like these mini stories at bedtime with AI.
Speaker C:So I give it a prompt that says, hey, I want to.
Speaker C:I did this recently where I was like, I want to create a story about a dog that is exploring Mars and this dog's name is, you know, create a story that a five year old would like.
Speaker C:And so it's just, it sort of gives you like the different aspects of like, you know, how to sort of rhyme it.
Speaker C:Like, for example, kids like rhyming, like every other word, every other sentence needs to rhyme.
Speaker C:So I use AI that way.
Speaker C:It's been very fun because it's very quick because otherwise, as a parent, as a working parent, it can take a lot of time.
Speaker C:But it's also a great way to have fun with AI and have like your child be part of it too.
Speaker C:So yeah, that's my, that's my favorite use case right now.
Speaker B:That's so cool.
Speaker B:And you know what?
Speaker B:That's so creative.
Speaker B:I've never thought of that at all.
Speaker B:Yeah, like, I haven't thought of that.
Speaker B:And I think that's a good tip for, you know, working moms.
Speaker B:Moms to be.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:That's actually a really, really good way.
Speaker C:Good at it.
Speaker C:Like, if you can say in the style of this, whatever favorite children book that you like, but it can be yours.
Speaker C:And now I have a list of stories too, that I'm trying to see if I can illustrate and just basically be like, hey, these are your stories that we created for you.
Speaker C:So, yeah, it's a lot of fun.
Speaker C:I like to play with AI quite a bit.
Speaker B:No, I love that it's such a creative way.
Speaker B:I'm definitely going to use that with my nieces and my nephews next time.
Speaker B:All right, so just to kind of get into the conversation now, you've.
Speaker B:You've had an impressive journey across leading tech companies.
Speaker B:What initially drew you to the tech sector?
Speaker C:My journey is I.
Speaker C:I did my undergrad in India, so I.
Speaker C:I'm an.
Speaker C:Actually, I'm.
Speaker C:I'm an immigrant to the United States, so that's a whole different side of off me.
Speaker C:I moved to the United States, I think about 15 years ago, but I was an undergrad.
Speaker C:I did my undergrad in engineering in India, which is very typical for anybody growing up in India.
Speaker C:If, you know, it's.
Speaker C:It's either an engineering or engineer or a doctor.
Speaker C:So I feel like in some sense it was kind of like predestined to, To.
Speaker C:To like tech.
Speaker C:But as I was doing my engineering, the thing that came out to me was I felt like I loved translating the technical aspects to a general audience.
Speaker C:I quickly realized I want to be on the business side of tech and not be a software engineer.
Speaker C:Even though I was technical, I felt like my strengths were communication, being able to articulate idea, being able to present.
Speaker C:And really I was very interested in the business side of tech.
Speaker C:And so that's where I went into doing my mba.
Speaker C:And then when I was doing my mba, actually in my MBA class, I was one of the, I think, few, A few people who are very clear that we were doing tech recruiting.
Speaker C:It was just something that interested me.
Speaker C:It was dynamic.
Speaker C:It felt like I understood the technical mechanics of it, but I also wanted to be on the business side of it because it was very exciting in terms of business models.
Speaker C:And so.
Speaker C:So, yeah, that's how I ended up getting into Microsoft straight out of business school.
Speaker C: s was during the recession of: Speaker C:But I was very persistent with Microsoft.
Speaker C:I was basically like, I was sending emails to recruiters, to people at Microsoft and basically saying, hire me.
Speaker C:I'm very passionate about tech and I'm very glad that it worked out eventually.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker B:No, honestly, your vision and your resilience is very impressive.
Speaker B:Just knowing at the early stage that you know what, this is the route I don't want to take and just following it through, I can just see that it's a factor to your success.
Speaker B:So congratulations, Kudos to you.
Speaker C:Thank you.
Speaker C:If I knew then that this is where I would be, obviously, cybersecurity was not.
Speaker C:When I was like, in school, it was not a thing.
Speaker C:So I don't want anyone listening to it.
Speaker C:Feel like, oh, she had everything figured out when she was in undergrad.
Speaker C:I don't think that was the case.
Speaker C:I just did what I felt I was excited about all the time.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:It was this thing of.
Speaker C:I remember I had got.
Speaker C:I was doing one major in my undergrad and I didn't like it at all.
Speaker C:And I just switched my major because I was like, I'm not gonna enjoy this, but I'm going to switch my major to something I'm going to enjoy doing.
Speaker C:And so in some sense, the path was never clear.
Speaker C:But I just, at every stage I was just.
Speaker C:I just wanted to do things I enjoy doing.
Speaker C:And so in some sense I knew myself of, here's what I would not like doing, but here's what looks interesting and fun for me.
Speaker C:And so in some sense that has sort of decided my choices at every level.
Speaker C:So when we graduated, everyone was doing specific things.
Speaker C:I chose another path to get into tech.
Speaker C:So it wasn't always very clear.
Speaker C:And a lot of my career has been people would say, oh, that is not a choice that most people would make.
Speaker C:Because some people are like, oh, I'm doing very well in my role.
Speaker C:I don't want to explore something new where my, my sort of philosophy is always being like, oh, I want to learn something more.
Speaker C:I want to keep myself at the tip of the spear in terms of.
Speaker C:So I would make those changes.
Speaker C:And so I, for me, if I look at my career, it's always been like, oh, I just stumbled into this.
Speaker C:But when it looks to other people, it's like, oh, it looks like you have like a path.
Speaker C:And I was like, no, I don't think it was very clear to me at that point level as I was making it.
Speaker C:And I think the, the business school example is a good one.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:Like, it was.
Speaker C:No one in tech was hiring at that time.
Speaker C: It was: Speaker C:It was.
Speaker C:We were we were all in, in the US it was in recession time and no one was hiring.
Speaker C:And I think the industry that was hiring was consulting.
Speaker C:Like, you know, your McKinsey's and BCGS and Bain and all of the consulting companies.
Speaker C:And as an international student, I was an international student too.
Speaker C:Like, I didn't have a.
Speaker C:I had visa issues.
Speaker C:I needed to get a work visa.
Speaker C:And so all of my fellow cohort was like, oh, we're just going to go into consulting because they are the only ones who are sponsoring it.
Speaker C:And I was, in some sense, stubborn because I was like, yeah, I'm not going to like consulting.
Speaker C:It's not my thing.
Speaker C:So I'm not going to do it just because I want a visa.
Speaker C:I'm going to go towards what I think I'm going to enjoy.
Speaker B:And like.
Speaker C:And so I was talking to tech companies, even though, you know, they were not coming on campus, they were not hiring, in some senses, I was just very, very persistent that way.
Speaker C:So I feel like in some sense, it's still.
Speaker C:The philosophy that drives me is you.
Speaker C:You should do things that enjoy because it may turn out that's what you're good at in some sense.
Speaker B:It's true.
Speaker B:And what I'm hearing from you is that you never just took no for an answer.
Speaker B:You always kind of knocked at every door until it opened, you know, which is really, it's really commendable.
Speaker B:Right, because sometimes, yeah, that would have easily discouraged some people, like, well, this is the only opportunity here, consulting.
Speaker B:So I guess it's the route I have to take.
Speaker B:And so I think the difference with you is that you said no, I'm.
Speaker B:I'm still gonna pursue what, you know, what I feel as though internally makes me happy and it's gonna fulfill me more.
Speaker C:So, yeah, and it's not easy.
Speaker C:And I don't think it's.
Speaker C:Either approach is wrong.
Speaker C:So I'm not saying that what my classmates chose was, you know, they absolutely had their reasons to do it and it was awesome for them.
Speaker C:In fact, I was jealous the fact that they were like, oh, you like it so much that you're going into it.
Speaker C:I just.
Speaker C:And you know, it is interesting, right?
Speaker C:So people always come to you and put fear in your, in your heart and say, oh, my God, this is so risky.
Speaker C:You should not do it.
Speaker C:And that also, it plays into you psychologically.
Speaker C:And I, I honestly, I, I surrounded myself with people, luckily, who, who, who are always like, you know, if, if, who basically say, no, I think you're doing the right Thing, you know, it's like I know you, I, I know that you are not going to enjoy this.
Speaker C:So I think, you know, going and choosing what you want to do and, and experimenting is the right thing for you.
Speaker C:So I think that helped a lot.
Speaker C:But it requires a lot of sort of understanding of self to sort of figure out like who are you and what are you going to enjoy doing and what you're good at.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And staying true to that.
Speaker B:Racing.
Speaker C:Absolutely.
Speaker C:Great questions by the way.
Speaker C:These are all hard questions.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker B:So tell me then, because I'm hearing that you just said have a strong background in business, a foundation with like your NBA mba, how's that shaped the way that you lead in tech?
Speaker B:So everything that you kind of build in the background, how does now that you take in that and how does that now affect the way that you lead others and the way that you conduct how, what you do.
Speaker C:So I feel like going into an MBA gave me a structure of business in some sense.
Speaker C:Like how do you like understand a business from inside out?
Speaker C:Because in tech there's a technical side of things, right?
Speaker C:Like what is a product, how to build a product technically, what are the things that you need and how the technology itself fundamentally works.
Speaker C:But there's also the business side of it which is, which you need to understand.
Speaker C:And so in some sense it made sense.
Speaker C:It helped me make sense of the world and then it helped sort of.
Speaker C:So when I, when I started, I think that also gave me a lot of confidence to advocate for things that I thought was important.
Speaker C:So a good example was that was I was in cybersecurity and we were thinking of some, you know, cybersecurity features to add for certain, for a product.
Speaker C:And you know, it's, you have to be in meetings with very, very senior people who have their own opinions, who have their own data.
Speaker C:And so it's, it's, it's also you, it helps you give confidence for what you believe in, in sort of saying, hey, I think these are the cybersecurity features this product needs because of X ray reasons.
Speaker C:And so I think if you ask my team, they will tell you that I've always advocated for what I believe in, but in a very respectful, articulate way with like data reasoning.
Speaker C:But if I believe in something strongly, I don't sort of, you know, shy and stay quiet and well, there are some places where I should have been quiet, but I wasn't.
Speaker C:That's a different other story.
Speaker C:But yeah, so I think it's given, I think my Background has given me confidence, but that's not enough.
Speaker C:I think you have to keep learning.
Speaker C:You have to be curious on a daily basis.
Speaker C:You have to feel comfortable saying, I don't know.
Speaker C:When someone asks you a question, and instead of pretending to have all of the answers, you have to be like, oh, I don't know.
Speaker C:But I think if my style is generally to be a curious learner and being respectful and just being open and honest and saying, hey, these are the things I think I know and these are the things I don't know.
Speaker C:But definitely my background has given me some confidence to be that curious learner.
Speaker B:No, that's so good.
Speaker B:That's like a key takeaway for me, being a curious learner.
Speaker B:Even in my background in L and D, that's really what we're looking for, is people not being afraid to.
Speaker B:If you don't know the answer, that's okay.
Speaker B:But like, learning how to get the answer, where to go for it, being that curious learner.
Speaker B:So then what would you say is the most underrated leadership skill in the tech industry?
Speaker C:Wow, that's a hard question.
Speaker C:Underrated skill in the tech industry.
Speaker C:I think it is.
Speaker C:I think it's vulnerability in some sense.
Speaker C:I personally don't see a lot of that.
Speaker C:That vulnerability to say, I don't know, or the vulnerability to say, okay, this is too much, too fast.
Speaker C:Let's slow things down so that we can be more methodical.
Speaker C:I feel there is this tendency, especially for leaders in tech to just run at things and just being very, very fast.
Speaker C:And I think we would do.
Speaker C:We would be more effective if, as leaders, we would mirror what our teams are feeling, which is like, sometimes things are going too fast, we are overwhelmed.
Speaker C:We are not feeling 100% confident all the time.
Speaker C:So I definitely feel that vulnerability is underrated.
Speaker C:And what I have found out is vulnerability actually builds trust with your teams.
Speaker C:Where your teams are like, oh, my manager gets it.
Speaker C:Like, she's.
Speaker C:She feels this too.
Speaker C:Like, she's not like this, you know, perfect person at all times.
Speaker C:And she can be in meetings too, where she can say, oh, I don't know the answer to this.
Speaker C:I will get back to you with it.
Speaker C:But I.
Speaker C:Off the top of my head, I can't.
Speaker C:I.
Speaker C:Or if something gets pointed out, you're like, oh, yeah, yeah, I missed it.
Speaker C:I'm sorry.
Speaker C:Like, you know, that kind of accountability and vulnerability is important to show it to your teams and your organizations.
Speaker C:Because I feel like pretty sometimes in organizations that I've seen that people don't see themselves mirrored in their leaders.
Speaker C:And sometimes a lot of it is like this aura built around leaders and I feel like that just sets everyone up, that just provides not the right impression.
Speaker C:I think everyone around, in leadership or not is feeling a tremendous amount of stress.
Speaker C:There's a lot of work and I think if we're most more vulnerable to our teams and people around us, I think that will build a lot of trust and I think that will build a lot of, oh, like comfort and sense of security.
Speaker B:Yeah, I agree with that.
Speaker B:And I think at least for me, tech is something that's very intimidating sometimes.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Like a giant beast in front of you.
Speaker B:So to see the human side in leadership allows people then to kind of, you know, enter in where it's like, okay, this is actually a safe space.
Speaker B:Safe space and a place where I can come and be myself and relate to the, the higher ups, the leadership that I'm under.
Speaker B:So that's really good.
Speaker B:So then, because you mentioned earlier that you do do some mentorship and so is that the same approach that you have when it comes to mentoring early career professionals, especially like women or under represented, represented groups in tech?
Speaker C:Absolutely.
Speaker C:I remember assuming for mentorship, it all started off as in please don't make the mistakes I did because I think a lot of them.
Speaker C:But it's also saying sometimes when people message me and say, hey, I did this thing at work and, and I was like, well, join the club.
Speaker C:Like, we've all had bad days at work too.
Speaker C:And so it's not the end of things.
Speaker C:We can just move on.
Speaker C:And here's how you can sort of rectify the situation.
Speaker C:And so I think that's what I'm trying.
Speaker C:I think the culture of is building this sort of open, authentic conversations we can have with each other and not sort of building this sort of false Personas where people are afraid to talk to you of, you know, what is affecting them, what is keeping them from what they want to do.
Speaker C:And so even as a manager, I think that's what I think I want is really this whole like if we have an honest conversation of where you're, where you're.
Speaker C:Where you're very happy with work or where, what are some of areas that you are, maybe you want some help on, we can then work together on it.
Speaker C:But if you're not able to have that level of conversation, it's not going to help anybody.
Speaker C:But I totally understand that the responsibility of that lies with managers and leaders because people ought to feel comfortable coming to you with those kind of things, but they're not.
Speaker C:If you're going to set up an aura of being on the pedestal where everything is buttoned up, everything is perfect and not having any vulnerability of that, I think it's going to intimidate a lot of people from actually coming to you.
Speaker C:So I think the best example of this was when I was very early in my career, I was a junior employee at that point, and we had just launched a product and the product launch was not going well and I had just taken over that, like, that product.
Speaker C:Like, I was not responsible for the launch, but the launch had been done and then that team moved on.
Speaker C:And now I came in as a new person and the numbers were not great.
Speaker C:And I was just like, oh my God, I've made the biggest mistake of my life.
Speaker C:I have to go report this to the leadership and they're just going to rail me.
Speaker C:It's going to be not nice.
Speaker C:And my initial reaction was, you know, how do I sugarcoat this?
Speaker C:Like, how do I just put like a, you know, like, just try and get the positive out of this.
Speaker C:How do I underplay this?
Speaker C:Can I push the meeting?
Speaker C:Whatever?
Speaker C:Like, because initially it's like, I don't want to deliver bad news to my leadership.
Speaker B:I'm going to get railed.
Speaker C:So I actually went into that meeting and I started that meeting with my leader saying, bad news.
Speaker C:And if after this I need to update my resume, move to another position, please tell me.
Speaker C:And I remember our leader at that time very clearly saying, I don't want this to be a meeting of fear.
Speaker C:Like, he was very clear.
Speaker C:I want this to be a meeting of curiosity of how do we solve this problem.
Speaker C:Not running away from the problem, not sort of, you know, downplaying this problem.
Speaker C:I just.
Speaker C:And he, he just said this like, there should be no fear.
Speaker C:There's no fear here.
Speaker C:Like, none of you should be afraid of it.
Speaker C:You should just go and have curiosity about what is not working.
Speaker C:Let's go fix it.
Speaker C:Like, and I still remember that I was like, oh my God, like all of a sudden, like a huge burden had been lifted off my shoulders.
Speaker C:And I was like, oh, yeah, I need to sor.
Speaker C:Figure out, like, what is going on here.
Speaker C:Instead of being worried, instead of being having fear drive everything.
Speaker C:And immediately that changed our entire perception of how we wanted to approach this.
Speaker C:Instead of running away from the problem, we were all driving towards the problem.
Speaker C:In fact, we were like, oh, it was this enthusiastic learning.
Speaker C:And I've always remembered that is.
Speaker C:That is what leadership is.
Speaker C:You have to create an environment of where people are not afraid and they're coming in with their problems and you're there to help them solve it.
Speaker B:No, that's amazing.
Speaker B:And I love that point because you know what?
Speaker B:It's all about perspective.
Speaker B:Like every issue, every problem can actually just be turned into an opportunity, can be a goal.
Speaker B:Now, okay, this is an issue and let's just turn this into a target and now let's see how we can solve it.
Speaker B:So that's, and I love that you had that manager kind of instilled that in you so that now, you know, years later you're instilling that in the people that you're mentoring and working with.
Speaker C:Absolutely.
Speaker C:And so this is a cycle, right?
Speaker C:This is the cycle that you have to perpetuate because a lot of us leaders sometimes lead with how we were led.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:So it's, it's almost like a parenting where you're, you're going to be the parent like, like how you were parented sometimes.
Speaker C:And a lot of it requires this conscious level of okay, these are the good things that I learned and this is, these are some of the things I don't want to repeat.
Speaker C:But I think the, that a lot of people get influenced managers and their management style comes from there.
Speaker C:And I think especially paying attention to sort of the good things that impacted you and repeating that is huge.
Speaker C:It's, it's.
Speaker C:And I think that's where a lot of what I try to do comes from, is I want the teams that I lead to go when they become leaders to perpetuate the same sense of, of positivity and security.
Speaker B:That's good.
Speaker B:Honestly, we've had a really good conversation so far.
Speaker B:Ashanka.
Speaker B:I just want to, just as we wrap up, I just want to leave ask you this last question in regards to AI.
Speaker B:So with AI now, how should professionals across non technical fields prepare themselves to work alongside AI or within AI enhanced environments?
Speaker B:I know there's a lot of fear just of the unknown.
Speaker B:It's a new thing, it's a new tool.
Speaker B:People are not really sure how to use it.
Speaker B:So what would be your advice on how they should approach it?
Speaker C:Very good questions.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:For AI, I think you should start dabbling in it.
Speaker C:And that's how I got into it, is just dabbling it with prompts and sort of building a sense of what the tool can and cannot do.
Speaker C:Like I was selling that example of creating like a story for my kid.
Speaker C:Like that's how I got into AI and having a sense of hey, this is how this tool sort of, you know, this is the questions you can ask it, and this is the answer it's kind of going to spit out.
Speaker C:And so I would sort of say start using it like something that you would like a toy, like, be the child again and have fun with it.
Speaker C:Because then you will start realizing how it can actually help you in your work.
Speaker C:And so at work, I think think of it as like, you know, the other thing I tell people is like, hey, what is a task that takes you a lot of thinking time, right?
Speaker C:Like, what does.
Speaker C:Like, there's this sense called the blank page problem.
Speaker C:You're given a task, you don't know how to start, right?
Speaker C:Like, it's this blank page and it's a lot of people.
Speaker C:Once it's like 40% there, you can then accelerate and take it and finish it.
Speaker C:But it's that starting problem a lot of people have.
Speaker C:That's another thing you could use AI for.
Speaker C:You could just say, I have this project.
Speaker C:I don't know how to start.
Speaker C:Can you help me?
Speaker C:And it will give you some thoughts and then you can ask it more questions.
Speaker C:And so the other sort of tip I would give is, you know, if you're having some things where you're like, I'm having difficulty getting started, just open your.
Speaker C:Any tool that your company allows you.
Speaker C:Because sometimes companies have specific tools that they recommend.
Speaker C:And then start asking questions of how to get started.
Speaker C:I'm one of those people who's like, very much like, this is the task that I have.
Speaker C:I would like opinions and thoughts about how I could get started.
Speaker C:And then it gives me like a thought process.
Speaker C:And then you ask it more questions, more clarifying questions.
Speaker C:So that's what we have seen is the blank page problem.
Speaker C:It's more effective for that.
Speaker C:Of course, you always have to check the work.
Speaker C:I've also sort of seen sometimes it just.
Speaker C:Especially when you're asking for numbers and figures, sometimes it makes up numbers.
Speaker C:And so you always have to check the accuracy of it.
Speaker C:So that's another thing that I would highlight people do.
Speaker C:But I think the best way is to start playing with it.
Speaker C:Play with it like what you would as a child.
Speaker C:And it's actually quite fun trying to test the boundaries of what it can and cannot do.
Speaker B:Okay, no, that's really cool to hear.
Speaker B:So as we bring this conversation to an end, I just want to give you just the opportunity, maybe 30 seconds.
Speaker B:Is anything that you want to just leave our audience members with any words of advice, encouragement.
Speaker C:I think the words of advice is, you know, it's, you're not going to have the answers at all times for your career.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:Like you're, it's never going to be a very clear cut path.
Speaker C:It may seem like other people have it figured out, but even they are going to have the same sort of sense of okay, what is it that I want to do?
Speaker C:And it's okay if you don't have the answers.
Speaker C:I think in those situations really do introspection of who you are, what your values are, what kind of strengths you have and follow that and I think it will generally work out in that sense.
Speaker C:So it's okay if you don't have it all figured out, if it's okay if you seem seems like a friends have figured it out.
Speaker C:But as long as you have that sense of self and understanding of who you are and what your strengths are, what your integrity is, what your principles are, that's what that matter.
Speaker B:That's awesome.
Speaker B:Thank you for leaving us with that.
Speaker B:I just want to thank you again for being here, for your insight, your just your knowledge and just your passion, your zeal for everything that you do.
Speaker B:Thank you so much, Ashanka.
Speaker B:We appreciate it.
Speaker B:For everyone else who's listening to our audience tuning in today, thank you so much for listening and for your support.
Speaker B:Support.
Speaker B:Stay tuned for more exciting interviews with amazing women who are trailblazers in the technology world.
Speaker B:You can listen to more episodes on Apple or Spotify podcasts and be sure to subscribe and follow our instagram page @whitlove.
Speaker B:So that's wit Love Podcast.
Speaker B:Feel free to drop a comment, let us know what you enjoyed most about this podcast and what topics you'd like to hear or who do you like us to interview next and share this podcast in your network?
Speaker B:Again, thank you to everyone who's here who has taken the time to listen.
Speaker B:Thank you again, Ashanka.
Speaker B:And yeah, that's it.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker C:Thank you Nella.
Speaker C:And thank you so much for your time.
Speaker C:Thank you so much.
Speaker C:I appreciate it.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Awesome.
Speaker A:So there you have it.
Speaker A:We trust that you enjoyed this episode and are looking forward to the next month.
Speaker A:Make sure to subscribe to our podcast so you never miss an episode.
Speaker A:Until then, thank you for listening with love.
